> Any app can trivially extract your signal conversations

You would not find info anywhere

Unit 8200 is Israel's elite military intelligence cyber unit - think NSA but with mandatory military service. Israelis serve in their late teens/early twenties, the most tech-savvy and promising recruits land in Unit 8200 where they develop world-class offensive cyber capabilities on the state's dime.

When they finish their service, they take those skills directly to companies like NSO, Candiru and Paragon. It's not a secret - these companies are often funded, and actively recruit Unit 8200 alumni. The talent isn't necessarily found, it's manufactured by the state and then handed off to the private sector.

That's why Israeli spyware is so effective. Arguably, it's not commercial R&D - it's military grade capabilities with a profit motive and little, if any, ethics oversight.

The American founders also emphasized the requirement that, for the American republic to function, it must have a virtuous people. The democratic process means that citizens now participate in the political process and thus shoulder some of the responsibility for how well a country is governed. The virtue of citizens becomes even more important.

After the talk I went up to him and asked, "What are the countries that are using these tools?" He looked at me with a certain amount of scorn and said, "All of them."

Not having a phone is nigh on impossible, minimizing phone use isn't quite as bad as you might think. Mine ran out of battery on Monday and I've not charged it all week.

I'm toying with the idea of only using it when I absolutely need to (e.g., for MFA, if I'm out of an evening and likely to need a taxi). Not so much an opsec thing, more that I spend enough time in-front of screens as it is.

The parent comment was flippant, but I think in the context of this piece, phone-use minimization isn't necessarily a bad idea.

its an anomaly having an "no data" especially in this ever digitized world

It is immoral. I'd never hire someone who worked on such software or for one of those firms. We should have a movement that declares this.

I wonder how Iran or Zambia feel about the west? The overthrow of their democracy. The colonial exploitations. Are those legit grievances in your eyes? Or are you a “take up the white mans burden” kind of person?

It's not like Iran or Zambia precisely to the degree it doesn't use such tools.

And Israeli company selling software to spy on journalist tells you everything you need to know about the whole “western” concept. It’s a mirage of morality.

remember belgacom?

western governments are also in the war of information and minds. if they wouldnt wage it, we'd already have lost.

sadly, this results in this kind of weirdness. and its incredibly hard or impossible to find their true motives or intent. especially if for example an investigation didnt turn up what they needed, an so seems like a random hack on a random person.

it doesnt happen only to journalists. but when they are targeted its easier discovered because they might expect it more and look for it more. and when it does, because its related to press, everyones 'freedom of press' button is tripped and they get offended, sad, angry, whatever the button releases.

If you’d like to know more about them, an article in the AP isn’t the right place to find more. But it is a good way to let people know what the US is funding in the world.

Good thing the story is not about the companies or governments, but the journalists.

The "this is not new" / "everyone knew about this" middlebrow dismissal adds nothing to any conversation, and falsely equates all hacking incidents, but the real story is about the clients, their motivations and the victims who are always different.

> I'd like to know from this article was what was their motivation

Wouldn't we all? Meloni's office had no comment, but the article gave enough breadcrumbs about the reporting of the victims that one can make an educated guess.

no I'm genuinely curious - because no matter who you sell it to it will be used against its own populace - look at bloody PRISM(mass data collection of internet traffic in US by NSA in case you weren't aware), Echelon(older project targeted at radio transmissions), 5eyes(US, UK, AUS, NZ, CN asking each other to spy on their own citizens as a loophole) .. or any other scandal in EU when it leaked that such spyware was used against journalists investigating government corruption. Or in Mexico, or anywhere else.

How you are surprised that "western government" might attack journalists when there has been proof of them doing that for years?!

i emphatically beg to differ with this statement

The king can do no wrong. What a pinnacle of arrogance.

>"The only thing that surprises me is that a western government might attack journalists"

Welcome to a real world

Only if you want to live in an Israeli-type society where a certain group is inherently suspicious and have no rights. Americans should be repulsed by that.

That's why I don't buy the judeo-christian propaganda about how our values are the same. The western values are justice and due process and "all men are created equal", zionist values are "we are god's chosen", no holds barred "war on terror" with no due process, invoking religous amalek to commit genocide. These are the values of an ancient desert tribe not western civilization. Zionist values have been forced onto the west over the last 30 years as Israel tries to rope us into more middle eastern wars, but they don't derive from western enlightenment philosophy.

Yes, because Western ones are the good governments (looking at Meloni).

> And fighting terror or crime using software is valid. The only thing that surprises me is that a western government might attack journalists, and what I'd like to know from this article was what was their motivation

Huh, it’s surprising that Western governments would spy on journalists. But they are the good guys? What was their motivation.

That's what this company's software is used for.

Good luck to them shifting focus to the bad actors they choose to do business with.

You might want to look up Karen Silkwood, who was likely murdered by either her employer or US government agents, while driving to meet with a reporter and her boyfriend.

If you think the US government hasn't murdered any journalists in the last 70 years or so, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

No one should be buying Israeli consumer goods, let alone weapons or security tools as part of Boycotts, Divestment, and Sanctions.

because the one who sold it quite likely also gets a hold of all information captured by it's user.

Check your other posts for examples of ongoing mass public surveillance programs.

It’s always shady if someone uses it because of its high misuse potential.

It’s the computer equivalent of a ABC weapon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

5eyes(spying agreement between US, UK, CAN, NZ, AU) utilizing a loophole to spy on each other's citizens.

Tons of cases with PEGASUS being used to target activists and journalists, usually ones investigating government corruption(EU, Mexico from top of my head).

You know what would also help solve crimes? if every action that everyone did was always observed and recorded. Would you be willing to live in such world? i would rather not.

What happens more often terror attacks which aren't easy to plan and do or journalists and activists do something the people in power don't like.

And how often are tools that were promised to be used only to combat serious crimes such as terrorism and child abuse used for the worst of all crimes: Copyright piracy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

And yes, Israel is a tiny country, both compared to almost all its enemies, and just objectively - it's one of the smallest countries in the world.

But if it makes you feel better, the third party is usually playing God.

While there was a very optimistic view within the Navy that the Japanese would soon face starvation and surrender, it doesn't appear to match reality. The food situation wasn't so dire that Japan was in any danger of near-term mass starvation. Most of the shortages came from poor weather leading to a bad harvest - not something one can hope to continue - and there was ample evidence the Japanese would sacrifice millions rather than surrender. Indeed, nearly all of the high level Japanese officials questioned said they would have fought indefinitely.

Of course it's hard to get real answers on all these questions - Gaza's Hamas-run MoH is not exactly trustworthy, and don't publish a split of civilians vs combatants. And Israel, even assuming you do trust its numbers, doesn't publish estimates of Gazan civilians killed either.

"True death toll from conflict in Gaza is 41% higher than reported, study estimates" https://www.bmj.com/content/388/bmj.r73

> Armed conflicts have indirect health implications beyond the direct harm from violence. Even if the conflict ends immediately, there will continue to be many indirect deaths in the coming months and years [...] In recent conflicts, such indirect deaths range from three to 15 times the number of direct deaths . Applying a conservative estimate of four indirect deaths per one direct death to the 37 396 deaths reported, it is not implausible to estimate that up to 186 000 or even more deaths could be attributable to the current conflict in Gaza.

The text is not claiming that 200,000 people at the point of publishing have died, it is estimating the number of deaths attributed to the conflict in the coming years.